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FORUM / RUGBY /  The Elephant in the Room

The Elephant in the Room

Started by Mozart25 REPLIES234 VIEWS· 08 Sept 2026, 20:15
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Mozart
MozartCoach50,531 posts
08 Sept 2026, 20:15
#1
08 Sept 2026, 20:15#1

Given NZ’s scrumming and mauling issues throughout the series, this is an interesting finding:

In pounds:
Team Test 1 Test 2 Test 3 pack weights:
Springboks 2,022 lb 2,081 lb 2,108 lb
All Blacks 2,044 lb 2,037 lb 2,037 lb

….the Boks have bulked up by 10 lbs a man, while the ABs are slightly down. Teams playing the Boks seem to be avoiding the elephant in the room….you are going to be tested for physicality. NZ’s issues are far deeper….they need 4 props who can stand when the chips are down. That’s not Lomax, definitely not Newell, they have been found wanting many times. But the props they have would surely benefit with a bit more power behind them.

So that brings us to the underlying NZ strategy that’s driving this….mobility, ball in hand, creating space…and probably the thought that moving the Boks around may diminish the physical edge.

That was evident in the second half, when with a strong wind behind them, the ABs kept trying to run from deep. They literally ceded the wind advantage.

So hats off to them for finding ways to hurt the Boks…..but the basics are off….physicality, one on one defence in the third test, lineout security and even tactics. It’s a team that has exposed some Bok weakneses. But in the final analysis they have the same fundamental problems that bedevilled Razor.

And hats off to the NZ rugby community who have been very complimentary of the Bok’s, particularly of their play in the second half… the few reviews I have watched have been ruthlessly honest.

MP
Pro5,209 posts
Mpower08 Sept 2026, 19:15

Agree on Newell. I think Lomax is their best TH and Tamaiti Williams there best LH.

He is sorely missed, in this Rivalry series. But most importantly, they need a better scrum coach. They need Mike Cron back instead of Jason Ryan.

Plum
PlumCaptain22,055 posts
08 Sept 2026, 21:53
#2
08 Sept 2026, 21:53#2

We should probably enjoy the fact that pack weight still matters while it does, because as World Rugby slowly erodes the value of the scrum, the knock-on effects will go far beyond scrums. Once the big, powerful specialist is no longer rewarded enough for the trade-offs that come with size, teams will start selecting lighter, more mobile forwards, and that'll change the ecology of the entire game. From there, the pressures on every other position change too. You risk setting off a chain reaction that changes the kind of players rugby rewards altogether. I'm very worried that that is where we are headed.

MP
Pro5,209 posts
Mpower09 Sept 2026, 13:16

Carlu

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MP
Pro5,209 posts
Mpower09 Sept 2026, 13:17

Wilco

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SA
Saffolk Captain30,928 posts
09 Sept 2026, 00:53
#3
09 Sept 2026, 00:53#3

The Boks are certainly bigger and one can’t take the pack weights at face value as they are so inaccurate at times

For decades stats have had Eben at 117kg, the weight he was when he played for the Baby Boks - it’s a joke.

I recall an interview with him where he stated his weight fluctuated between 130 and 135kg which makes complete sense when you look at him

I think a big factor in how better our scrum has become is down to scrum coach Daan Human. All the forwards praise his methods - from the machines he designes to the scrum sessions he holds which the players say are tougher than any test match they play in. Seeing stars appears to be the norm during those scrum sessions

Was enjoying listening to the current Bok strength and conditioning coach - a Pom who now lives in CT, with his wife and 2 kids, one being SA born. He was approached by Rassie thanks to Schalk Brits’s recommendation - he was the Sarries S&C coach

Deus Ex Lemur
Pro2,486 posts
Deus Ex Lemur09 Sept 2026, 06:54

During the New Zealand broadcast last week, they listed the pack weights during one of the scrums and listed New Zealand as being a fair bit heavier.

MP
MpowerPro5,209 posts
09 Sept 2026, 01:24
#4
09 Sept 2026, 01:24#4

The scrum is inherently rugby union. It's a massive Springbok strength and it will be completely biased by World Rugby if scrums get removed or watered down.

There's already talk of Oz and the Kiwi's pushing for changes, including proposals that could see scrums replaced by mauls, to speed up the game.

SA Rugby CEO Rian Oberholzer has said it feels like World Rugby changes laws to target the Springboks specifically, as World champions.

If Scrums gets taking away, rugby union will lose popularity overnight and go bankrupt shortly after, I think.

World Rugby says de-powering the scrum "isn't on the table" but they've already admitted resets are "one of the most frustrating things for fans" and they're looking to take that away.

French Rugby Federation has raised concerns about potential damage to the sport's DNA. So the Frenchies get it.

Scrums are for the big Boys, while the backline is for the fast guys, that's what makes rugby unique. Take that away and you might as well watch Rugby league.

And trust me, nobody wants to watch rugby league, it's way past idiotic!!

Plum
Captain22,055 posts
Plum09 Sept 2026, 05:41

French fans are the biggest dooses on the planet but everything else about French rugby is admirable. I for one will be watching Top 14 this season. I'm sure they know they could play slightly more boring rugby and be a little more successful but they absolutely refuse. And I give them massive props for that.

After every French game involving a French side that I watched last season delivered, then the opening game of the test season where the ABs scraped past France at home in a game that was only matched by the 3rd game in the RGR...how can I not want to watch more French rugby?

At the next WC, if SA don't win, I hope France does.

DbDraad
DbDraadCaptain26,964 posts
09 Sept 2026, 05:14
#5
09 Sept 2026, 05:14#5

"And hats off to the NZ rugby community who have been very complimentary of the Bok’s, particularly of their play in the second half… the few reviews I have watched have been ruthlessly honest."

Not the whole community...some bitterballe on social media... they've got their fair share of one eyed nutters....PS...Moolaa has been the only one of our local board Kiwis who's shown his face since after the second test...

Plum
Captain22,055 posts
Plum09 Sept 2026, 05:43

At this point, had they been 2-1 up in the series we know we'd have seen a few Kiwis pop in.

Sader is maar lekker stil hahaha

DbDraad
DbDraadCaptain26,964 posts
10 Sept 2026, 20:29
#6
10 Sept 2026, 20:29#6
DbDraad
Captain26,964 posts
DbDraad12 Sept 2026, 00:57

@Deus Ex Lemur ...your best 10 will probably be Mornè Steyn with Frans Steyn as your 12...you didn't rate Jean an Moz didn't rate Mossie...but that's besides the point...the team isn't just the players.. it's everyone on the bus...and for this team the team > the sum of the parts...the true measure of a great team...where the team comes before the individual... it's a team sport after all.

Deus Ex Lemur
Pro2,486 posts
Deus Ex Lemur12 Sept 2026, 01:10

@DbDraad I stand by what I said. I think people have simply forgotten the calibre of players we've had in the past.

Have we seen anything remotely comparable to Fourie du Preez, Butch James, Jean de Villiers, Frans Steyn or Jaque Fourie? Nobody in the current side matches Habana. JP Pietersen was a more complete player than almost anything we've produced out wide over the past decade. Then consider Bakkies, Danie Rossouw, Flip van der Merwe, Matfield, Big Joe, Os, Beast, Brussow, Francois Louw, Schalk, Juan Smith, Percy — the list goes on, and that's largely within a single generation.

The distinction I keep making is between results and individual performance. You point to what this Bok side has won in a particularly weak era of test opposition; I'm talking about the quality and completeness of the individual players doing the winning. Those aren't necessarily the same thing.

This generation contains an extraordinary number of utility players with fairly ordinary individual skill sets. Damian and Kriel were, to my mind, among the first prominent examples of that breed in the South African game.

We have a two-time World Player of the Year whose actual production, in my view, has never remotely matched the accolades — an ineffective carrier, an unreliable defender and essentially a utility forward: not quite a lock, but not quite a conventional flank either.

Kolisi falls into a similar category for me. He is our most celebrated captain, yet I've never regarded leadership as the strongest part of his playing résumé, and throughout his career he has rarely performed the traditional core functions one would expect from a genuine openside flank. Again, that's not to say he has no value; it's to question how his individual ability compares with the great Bok loose forwards who came before him.

So I'll say it again: I don't believe a single player in this current Bok side makes an honest all-time Springbok XV on individual merit.

And I'll go one further: I'm not even convinced this side would beat the 2003 Boks. Now that should tell you how little weight I'm giving the trophy cabinet in judging the individual quality of these players.

KI
kingcornPro3,861 posts
11 Sept 2026, 14:00
#7
11 Sept 2026, 14:00#7

We weren't always the best at the scrum and NZ always put a decent pack out. I do think they are short on decent locks. You need a powerful 4 lock

— END OF THREAD —

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